Why do many women struggle to assert their leadership and set boundaries effectively in personal and professional environments? This challenge often stems from societal expectations and ingrained biases that prioritize selflessness over self-care. By fostering self-awareness, embracing neuroplasticity, and learning to communicate boundaries confidently, one gears up for a transformative shift in mindset that empowers women to lead authentically and achieve personal and professional fulfillment.
Mindy Vail has more than two decades of experience in leadership development, change management, education, and public speaking. Working with emerging leaders to veteran executives, her focus is cultivating a growth mindset and fostering resilience. Her new book, The Mind Shift Effect: Where Change Management Is Redefined and Leadership Is Defined (April 16, 2024), provides a wellspring of inspiration for leading meaningful organizational change.
In this episode, Mindy Vail shares about the importance of self-awareness and empathy in leadership, emphasizing the need to recognize and address personal biases that can hinder effective leadership. She highlights the significance of setting boundaries to prioritize well-being and the challenges women face in doing so. Additionally, she underscores the role of repetition and neuroplasticity in developing new habits and behaviors for personal growth and leadership development.
What you will learn from this episode:
- Learn to challenge these leadership myths that are getting in the way of developing your highest potential as a leader.
- Delve into practical tools and strategies for leadership development and personal growth.
- Gain significant insights on the importance of setting boundaries, overcoming biases, and fostering a growth mindset, providing valuable guidance for women aiming to advance in their careers.
“If we want to learn a new language, if we want to master a musical instrument, it’s that repeated practice and reinforcement that will help to solidify those new patterns in our minds and our behaviors.”
– Mindy Vail
Valuable Free Resource:
- Unlock Your Leadership Potential, Embrace Change, and Transform Your Organization with this book resource: The MindShift Effect: Where Change Management is Redefined and Leadership is Refined
Topics Covered:
02:00 – Sharing her career transition from education to the corporate world [of franchise]
05:54 – What education and franchise have in common
07:28 – Her motivation in writing her book, ‘The MindShift Effect’ and what is it all about
11:08 – The significance of acknowledging that others may see the world differently than you and encouraging for an open dialogue
13:17 – Shattering leadership myths
14:53 – Mind shift as change in both mindset and behavior
16:24 – How repetition helps solidify new patterns in our minds and behaviors
17:28 – Harnessing neuroplasticity to rewire our brains to effect change
19:56 – Reinforcing the idea that progress requires action, not just passive reading
21:36 – Understanding and addressing both conscious and unconscious biases is for effective leadership
24:06 – Q: How can I as a woman effectively set boundaries to prioritize my wellbeing, my mental health, and my career? A: When you can identify what is truly important to you, what your true core values are, you then can start identifying what your limits should be.
Key Takeaways:
“How we become leaders is assuming that everyone’s on board with us. And that is the worst thing we can do.” – Mindy Vail
“When we are able to just pause and take a step back and say, share with me your experience. Share with me your fear about this change or share with me what you’re most concerned about in your career progression. That then opens the door to conversation that we just don’t have enough.” – Mindy Vail
“We don’t need all the answers all the time. And sometimes it’s better to say, I don’t have the answer. I want to hear from you. I want to7 work collaboratively with this team, and we can come to an answer together.” – Mindy Vail
“When we start becoming more self-aware of how our behaviors impact those around us then we start not only to become more authentic, but we create a more positive and empowering environment for those around us because we are admitting that we have flaws.” – Mindy Vail
Ways to Connect with Mindy Vail:
- Website: https://www.themindshifteffect.com/
Ways to Connect with Sarah E. Brown:
- Website: https://www.sarahebrown.com
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/knowguides
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahebrownphd
- To speak with her: bookachatwithsarahebrown.com
Full Episode Transcript:
Mindy Vail 00:00
We go into our careers with these doubts of, are these shoes okay? Is my lipstick too red? Am I calling attention to myself? When men don’t do that. And so, for me, that mind shift is about leaving those conditioned limitations we’ve put on ourselves and becoming our authentic selves.
Sarah E. Brown 00:30
Hello, everyone! Welcome to the KTS Success Factor Podcast for Women, where we talk about challenges senior female leaders face in being happy and successful at work. I’m your host, Dr. Sarah E. Brown.
My guest today is Mindy Vail. She has more than two decades of experience in leadership development, change management, education, and public speaking. Working with emerging leaders to veteran executives, her focus is cultivating a growth mindset and fostering resilience. Her new book, the Mind Shift Effect: Where Change Management is Redefined and Leadership is Defined, provides a wellspring of inspiration for leading meaningful organizational change. And what we’re going to focus on in this episode is that part of defining leadership. So Mindy, thank you for being with me today.
Mindy Vail 01:34
Thank you for having me.
Sarah E. Brown 01:36
So before we get into your book, which I think is fascinating, I want you to tell my listeners a little more about your background, because you have transitioned from education into the corporate world, and that’s an unusual change. And I want to know what prompted that and what it was like for you to make that change.
Mindy Vail 02:00
Absolutely. Yes. It is a little bit of a different career path than many have taken. I spent 17 years in the middle school and high school classrooms where I taught English primarily and in public speaking. For a laundry list of reasons I left teaching and then had no idea what I wanted to do. I was a bit of a lost soul, as many people are when they try to transition into a new career. I didn’t know what skills would be transferable. And I tried a few odds and ends and tried to start up a few entrepreneurial adventures, which did not go far. And I was lucky enough to get a deal, a one-year contract with Chipotle, who was headquartered in Denver where I was at the time. And proud, not proud to say I may have given a half truth when they asked if I could develop e-learning courses. I had had some experience and I was kind of a PowerPoint guru. So I knew those were transferable skills, but I didn’t know the program that they specifically were asking for. So instead, I said, yes, absolutely. I can deliver you a sample course, I’ll get that to you on Monday. And I had to spend the weekend teaching myself the software. I got the job.
Sarah E. Brown 03:20
But that’s what most guys would’ve done. So, I just want to say that I don’t disagree. I think you’re right.
Mindy Vail 03:28
And I think sometimes we just have to push ourselves to do those things, even when we don’t know if we’re going to succeed. It’s worth the risk because that was a life-changing opportunity for me. I don’t know where I would be today had I not made that one decision to say, yeah, I got it when I really didn’t have it. And then figure it out.
Sarah E. Brown 03:50
And then how did the course wind up?
Mindy Vail 03:53
It was great. And I grew my skills when I worked there as an e-learning developer. And that then led me to apply for a job out in the Northwest with Papa Murphy’s. And I became a senior manager of training and soon rose the corporate ladder to VP of Culture and Engagement. After about eight years, I was leading a team of HR professionals and training, field development training. The PMO was under me at the time and corporate communications. So again, I kept putting myself in these positions where, yeah, maybe I’m not ready. Maybe I don’t know everything. Yeah, I’m probably going to fall flat on my face and I’m going to have to be okay with that because I’m not going to get where I want to go if I don’t take those risks. And to your point, men do it all the time.
Sarah E. Brown 04:42
And if you failed, so what?
Mindy Vail 04:47
But I think we get in our own heads about that, especially women that self-doubt crops up on a daily basis where we’d say, no, we probably shouldn’t. We should probably play it safe.
Sarah E. Brown 04:56
Did you have any fears in the process?
Mindy Vail 05:00
Oh, yeah. Oh, a ton. Oh yeah, I shed a lot of tears. I got very frustrated with myself questioning why I was doing what I was doing. And yet that’s what gives you that adrenaline to keep going.
Sarah E. Brown 05:11
And how did you get into the franchise?
Mindy Vail 05:14
Papa Murphy’s was a franchise system. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Had I known then what I know now. I’m not sure I would’ve done it. But it definitely teaches you about the necessities of structure and regulatory compliance and building a strong brand with consistency. Not very different from education, truly. And so it is a beast. Franchise systems are a beast, but if they’re done right, they can be amazingly successful.
Sarah E. Brown 05:47
Tell me a little bit about what the similarities are between education and corporate or franchise.
Mindy Vail 05:54
Yeah. So the first thing that I noticed was that structure, that need for having competencies, guidelines that were strictly put into place to ensure proper training. Delivery of training, equity. In education you’ve got state regulated competencies. You have lesson planning that has to align to those state competencies. You have classroom management depending on the kind of student population you have. You have student learning outcomes, you have parent relationships, administrative pressures. And similarly, what I noticed in franchises, having well-defined operational structures is critical to ensure brand consistency, brand integrity, and overall success of the business model. So that was in common, and I was surprised to see how similar that was. The other thing I noticed is that patients, and this maybe can go across different industries, but education and franchise, you’re dealing with so many different personalities who want different things from the same environment. And so patience is critical. And for me, I found that a sense of humor went a long way in both.
Sarah E. Brown 07:19
I get that. So just as a segue, why did you want to write a book?
Mindy Vail 07:28
So in February, I was laid off from this job that I loved and people I adored, and it was part of a merger. Lots of changes in transformations were happening in the company. I was laid off. I really, again, hit that crossroads of what do I want to do? Do I want to go and work for another corporation? Do I want to stay in the food and beverage industry? Do I want to go back to education? Right. All those doubts are starting to surface again. So I started writing for myself to find what my passion really was. And hopefully that would then lead me to a decision about what I should do. Well, as I kept writing, it became very cathartic for me. And I started reflecting on all of the things that I saw that were so beneficial to establishing a positive culture versus all of those things I saw that created a toxic culture in all the different environments that I had worked in over the years. And I started reflecting on those and realizing, wow, this really is my passion. I want to explore this more. And that then turned into a book. My book was not originally written to be published. My book was for me to really explore those concepts that I just love digging into. And the more I did it, the more I realized I kind of just want to follow this path.
Sarah E. Brown 08:57
And so explain the title, The Mind Shift.
Mindy Vail 08:59
The Mind Shift Effect. So I feel like over the years I’ve seen the two personalities. I’ve seen those with the growth mindset and those with a fixed mindset. And the successful ones with the growth mindset are those who can take a step back from their preconceived notions and what they believe to be true and are able to say, wait a second, let me hear you out. Give me another perspective. Give me your point of view. Because it may be different. And then I want to take that in and I want to process it, and I want to sit on that. Successful people are those who can shift where they were and thought they needed to be to say, whoa, there may be another better option for me. And it’s not always about agreeing with the person, it’s about being open enough to say, wait, there may be another way. And I think that as women, we have been so conditioned to believe certain things about ourselves. And we go into our careers with these doubts of, are these shoes okay? Is my lipstick too red? Am I calling attention to myself when men don’t do that? And so for me, that mind shift is about leaving those conditioned limitations we’ve put on ourselves and becoming our authentic selves of just be who you are, gain the skills you need to gain, draw on your mentors and your support group, and be powerful. Embrace it.
Sarah E. Brown 10:33
Okay. So there are two components, I want to make sure I got it right. There are two components. One is being vulnerable enough to be your authentic self. That’s one. And the other is recognizing that the way you see the world may not be the way that other people see the world.
Mindy Vail 10:50
A hundred percent.
Sarah E. Brown 10:51
Okay. All right. Got that. I got that. And recognizing, I will tell you that for my clients, recognizing that other people see the world totally differently from the way they see the world is a real eye-opening experience. Yeah.
Mindy Vail 11:08
Yeah. And we go into our lives, personal and professional with these assumptions that people see it the way we do. And that’s then how we become leaders is assuming that everyone’s on board with us. And that is the worst thing we can do. And so when we are able to just pause and take a step back and say, share with me your experience. Share with me your fear about this change or share with me what you’re most concerned about in your career progression. That then opens the door to conversation that we just don’t have enough.
Sarah E. Brown 11:44
Okay. So you spent quite a bit, you’re applying this to both change management and leadership. And right now we’re focusing on the leadership component. So you spend a lot of time in your book busting myths on leadership. Give me an example of a myth that you bust on leadership and why you think this is another one of the perceptions, other people don’t always see the world the way you see the world. Bust a myth on leadership for us.
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Mindy Vail 13:17
One of the things that I challenge the notion of is that success, especially for women, has to follow this linear path, that we have to start at the bottom and we have to just inch our way up and prove ourselves to the world around us. And I am a living testament that that is not the way it has to work. If I can go from a high school English classroom to become a VP of culture and engagement in eight years, it doesn’t have to be linear. It just doesn’t. And so we’ve got to get that limitation restraint out of our heads. The other myth that I see a lot is this, that leaders have to know everything all of the time. And men and women are guilty of this, of, well, I’m leading this big team, I need to have all the answers. And yet you don’t, you’re never going to have all the answers. And the day you say you do, you’re fooling yourself. And so we don’t need all the answers all the time. And sometimes it’s better to say, I don’t have the answer. I want to hear from you. I want to work collaboratively with this team, and we can come to an answer together. There’s so much more power in that than me just saying I know everything.
Sarah E. Brown 14:30
Alright. Well said. So if you were going to characterize the mind shift that is required for effective personal and leadership development. So more than just becoming a recognized leader, but just progressing yourself, becoming the best that you could be, what would you say is the essence of that shift?
Mindy Vail 14:53
For me, it involves this profound, not just shift in our mindset, but a shift in our behaviors. Because when we start becoming more self-aware of how our behaviors impact those around us then we start not only, like you said, become more authentic, but we create a more positive and empowering environment for those around us because we are admitting that we have flaws. We are admitting that we have weaknesses. And that’s good. That’s positive. You’re not putting yourself exposed. You are giving yourself to others to say, I’m not perfect. And it also enables us to lead with more empathy, I believe, and help others and ourselves kind of navigate those challenges with more confidence, inspire others to get through by leading from example. Ultimately, the mind shift is about leadership development and how we can pave the way for other women to have meaningful conversations with each other and lift each other up rather than have that unhealthy competitive nature that has been ingrained in us for so long.
Sarah E. Brown 16:05
Okay. One of the concepts that you stress at the beginning of your book is that of repetition. So, repeat yourself a lot.
Mindy Vail 16:18
Yeah. I like what you did there.
Sarah E. Brown 16:21
Why do you think repetition is so important?
Mindy Vail 16:24
We know from neuropsychology that it helps us internalize those new habits and beliefs and skill sets. It’s just like anything else. If we want to learn a new language, if we want to master a musical instrument, it’s that repeated practice and reinforcement that will help to solidify those new patterns in our minds and our behaviors. And what I’ve noticed when you’re talking about soft skills like leadership. It’s really hard work because you can’t see it. It’s not necessarily tangible, and it’s sometimes really uncomfortable. And quite honestly, I think that’s why a lot of people choose not to do it. And yet when we can embrace this repetition and say, wow, this is going to require a lot of work on my part, concentrated deliberate work on my part, we learn how to embrace that discomfort. And then we stay committed to that repetition and consistency and it creates this lasting change and attitude that we then take on as something new, like the new and improved version of ourselves.
Sarah E. Brown 17:28
And that’s a good segue into the neuropsychology of change and personal development. Are there other characteristics of that science that we should be aware of as we think about our own development?
Mindy Vail 17:45
I think what I find fascinating is we don’t talk enough about how our brain processes change, how our brain processes relationships and emotions. When we are put in front of new experiences as a leader, that’s always going to happen. We’re going to be making decisions every single day that impact people around us and the business that we work for. And our brain is going to see these new experiences as potentially a threat. And when it does, it’s going to trigger that amygdala, it’s going to release cortisol, and we’re going to feel a response that can lead to anxiety or resistance or withdrawal. And yet when we can understand and actively engage in our self-awareness and activities that create our self-awareness, we can rewire our brains. It’s that neuroplasticity. And it’s that constant repetition and that positive thinking, that growth mindset where we can rewire our brains and promote personal development. And so I think that when we talk more about how our brains respond, it’s just, it opens up this conversation that we just don’t have enough. And how we can actively work to rewire our neuro pathways. It’s fascinating to me, and I know when I talk about it with my clients, it’s kind of this aha moment of, yeah, that’s right. Our brains are constantly working and we can feed it either toxic info or positive info. What would we rather have on a daily basis?
Sarah E. Brown 19:22
Okay. That was a good example. In the intro. I think it was the intro, but somewhere early on in the book, you made a comment that your book was full of practical tools for this kind of development. Give my audience an example of what a practical tool is for leadership development, because like you said, it’s a very abstract concept and, and how you make it concrete and real to actually pursue it is an important thing to wrap your head around.
Mindy Vail 19:56
Yeah. I appreciate you asking that because that was part of the addition when I decided to actually turn this into a book of, it’s more than just the content. It’s about what we are going to do with the content. And maybe that comes from my teaching background. I always want to have an applicable skill that I can take with me. But for me in the book, I have questions at the end of every section for the reader to reflect and say, okay, based on what you just read, where are you, do a temp check. What are you thinking? How have you responded in the past? How do you lead in this environment? And these are actionable takeaways that every person will have answers, different answers for. And so I love the opportunity to be able to read and then reflect because no one else is influencing your thoughts and nobody else is judging. And you just have time to take for yourself and think through, how do I respond in these different situations? How do I lead teams? How do people perceive me? What does my behavior say about me? And so in the book, you’re going to see those cues to take action on.
Sarah E. Brown 21:10
Okay. So, the gist of it is, do something.
Mindy Vail 21:14
You got it. Absolutely do something. Don’t just sit.
Sarah E. Brown 21:18
Alright. There’s one final topic I wanted to ask you about that you highlight in the book. And that is, coming to terms with our biases that might get in the way. Give me an example of a bias that would get in the way and how do we become aware of these?
Mindy Vail 21:36
Okay. The first part of that question is that there’s many different kinds of biases. I tend to focus on our conscious biases and unconscious biases that tend to obstruct our ability to lead well. So for example, confirmation bias. Confirmation bias leads us to seek information that confirms our existing beliefs. We all fall into that trap. We think one thing is true. So we start seeing all the information that validates what we believe to be true. And we tend to ignore anything that doesn’t resonate with that truth that we have in our brains that can be really detrimental. Obviously we also have the anchoring bias, right? Where we just rely heavily on that initial information we’re given, and then we don’t do any more research. Those unconscious biases are harder to identify because those are ingrained from our childhood, all the conditioning through the years, past traumas, maybe, past successes for sure. And so those to me, require a bit more diligent work on an individual’s part. That’s where I really get into the heart of my Hogan leadership coaching. When I’m coaching clients. It’s about digging into what experiences in your life have led you to believe the things you believe. I don’t need to know all those things. They’re for them to reflect on. But again, that’s uncomfortable work for a lot of people. It’s not easy, Right? That the conscious biases are easier to identify. Those unconscious biases you really have to pull from years and years of conditioning. And so I think anytime somebody wants to increase their self-awareness of their biases, coaching is probably the best. If it’s personal seek therapy or counseling, life coach, if it’s for professional, things like the Hogan coaching that I specialize in are amazingly effective.
Sarah E. Brown 23:48
Alright. Very cool. So Mindy, if there were one question that I should have asked you that would help my audience understand what the mind shift effect is all about, what did I not ask you that I should have?
Mindy Vail 24:06
The one that comes up in my work a lot is how can I as a woman effectively set boundaries to prioritize my wellbeing, my mental health, my career? That comes up all the time because I think, especially for women, when it comes to setting boundaries, we feel like it’s selfish. We feel like we have to put everybody else first. And it turns into this vicious cycle of always saying yes and putting ourselves last. And so I answer that question of how, remember that it’s self-care. It’s not selfish. There’s nothing selfish about setting boundaries. And so when you can identify what is truly important to you, what your true core values are, you then can start identifying what your limits should be. That’s where we have to start. And then being able to muster up the courage to communicate those boundaries with the people in your life that you need to communicate those with. And I know it’s hard. I still struggle with it. And it’s going to be different with different people because you have different relationships. But when you surround yourself with supportive people and those people who respect and are willing to uphold your boundaries because you have been brutally honest with them, that’s empowering. At least it has been for me that that’s made all the difference in the world. I know what my values are, I know what my limits are, and I can communicate those boundaries with others.
Sarah E. Brown 25:50
Well said. So Mindy, thank you so much for being with me today.
Mindy Vail 25:55
Thank you very much for having me. I really enjoyed it.
Sarah E. Brown 25:58
And for those of you listening, I highly recommend The Mind Shift Effect. I’ve read it myself. It’s a really good read.
Mindy Vail 26:06
Thank you.
Sarah E. Brown 26:07
Thanks for listening to the KTS Success Factor Podcast for Women. If you like what you are hearing, please go to iTunes to subscribe, rate us, and leave a review. And if you would like more information on how we can help women in your organization to thrive, then go to www.sarahebrown.com. You can sign up for our newsletter, read show notes, and learn more about our podcast guests, read my blog, browse through the books, or contact us for a chat. Goodbye for now.