When hiring new employees, particularly in today’s digital age, executives face the daunting challenge of ensuring they bring trustworthy and competent individuals into their organizations. The risk of hiring someone with a questionable background or misrepresented qualifications can lead to significant organizational damage, from financial loss to reputational harm. This is especially critical for female executives who may be more empathetic in their decision-making process, potentially leading them to overlook red flags. One can overcome these challenges by leveraging thorough background checks, trusting one’s instincts while staying objective, and utilizing professional resources to ensure safe and effective hiring practices. 

Cynthia Hetherington, MLS, MSM, CFE, CII, OSC is the Founder and CEO of Hetherington Group, a consulting, publishing, managed services, and training firm that leads in due diligence, corporate intelligence, and cyber investigations. Throughout her career, she has assisted clients on thousands of cases using online open sources and databases as well as executing boots-on-the-ground operations. She provides specialized training for investigative professionals through the OSINT Academy, and has authored many industry-leading books on conducting cyber investigations, including her latest, OSINT: The Authoritative Guide to Due Diligence: Essential Resources for Critical Business Intelligence, 3rdEdition.

In this episode, Cynthia discusses the importance of conducting thorough background checks when hiring, emphasizing the need to use licensed professionals for accurate and comprehensive information. She highlights the role of intuition in the hiring process, advising executives to trust their gut feelings while also considering candidates’ qualifications and histories.

What you will learn from this episode:

  • Learn valuable advice on hiring practices, background checks, and how to protect your business and personal interests.
  • Find out practical and actionable tips for navigating the complexities of hiring both in a corporate setting and for household help and understanding state laws.
  • Discover specific strategies and support to help businesswomen succeed and make informed decisions in their professional and personal lives.

“You can trust your gut, but don’t follow your heart.”

– Cynthia Hetherington

Valuable Free Resource: 

Topics Covered:

02:04 – What does this acronym OSINT stand for

02:28 – Her journey from a librarian into the intelligence space

03:02 – Importance of finding individuals who can match the pace and demands of the role rather than just being empathetic to personal circumstances

04:09 – Why choosing a candidate based on likability rather than skills led to a poor hiring decision

05:35 – The need to prioritize your instincts and thorough background checks over empathetic feelings

07:31 – What you need to know about the hiring process and valuable resources to help you find licensed firms doing background checks

11:20 – How to deal with a candidate’s past questionable behavior found on social media

13:54 – Opt for practical considerations and intelligence in hiring decisions versus strictly adhering to legal requirements not aligning with real-world risks faced by businesswomen

16:05 – Advice on using professional help for accurate information and reputation management

18:41 – Navigating interstate laws when hiring

20:26 – How the laws of the company’s home state are primarily operative when conducting background screenings and hiring

21:34 – Q: What’s for free out there and how could we do this ourselves? A: I like to go through and review their LinkedIn profile; it’s a social media profile that’s open and accessible to everyone.

Key Takeaways:

“If you have a sense that the individual you’re talking to might present really well, but there’s just something that just doesn’t feel right, go with that.” – Cynthia Hetherington

“At the core of what I do is, we’re here to make the world a safer place. We’re not going to compromise that because of whatever the statements of legislators who are not having the same issues or concerns that these business women are having.” – Cynthia Hetherington

“Let’s try to help each other out and empower each other to be the best executives we can by using intelligence. And not straight up jurisprudence to guide us at every turn.” – Cynthia Hetherington

Ways to Connect with Cynthia Hetherington:

Ways to Connect with Sarah E. Brown:

 

Full Episode Transcript:

Cynthia Hetherington 00:00

There was a nagging thought in the back of my head, which is another mistake we make. We need to listen to what our inner voices are telling us. Just because she has a better personality doesn’t mean she’s a better fit. And wouldn’t you know it? As soon as we started doing our background check, she failed it. When I went back to the lady who didn’t have as fun and easygoing of a personality, she was moving on to another position. So, I probably lost a good staff member because we went with our feelings and not with the qualifications that we really needed.

Sarah E. Brown 00:36

Hello, everyone! Welcome to the KTS Success Factor Podcast for Women, where we talk about challenges senior female leaders face in being happy and successful at work. I’m your host, Dr. Sarah E. Brown.

My guest today is Cynthia Hetherington. She is the founder and CEO of the Hetherington Group, a consulting, publishing, managed services and training firm that leads in due diligence, corporate intelligence, and cyber investigations. Throughout her career, she has assisted clients on thousands of cases using online open sources and databases, as well as executing boots on the ground operations. She provides specialized training for investigative professionals through the OSINT Academy, and has authored many industry leading books on conducting cyber investigations, including her latest OSINT: The Authoritative Guide to Due Diligence: Essential Resources for Critical Business Intelligence. And this is the third edition. Welcome, Cynthia!

Cynthia Hetherington 01:58

Thank you very much. It’s really great to be here.

Sarah E. Brown 02:01

So, what does O-S-I-N-T stand for?

Cynthia Hetherington 02:04

It’s an acronym that goes back to the Early World War I or prior. It’s about collecting open sources. So the OS stands for open source and INT is for intelligence, and this is finding information that’s accessible and using it for a business case or an intelligence use.

Sarah E. Brown 02:25

And how did you get into this field?

Cynthia Hetherington 02:28

I was a public librarian 30 years ago. Intelligence is really just information with a purpose. And as a public librarian, we were sharing information all day long, and as the internet blossomed into an actual usable tool, I just kept adapting my skills, got my private detective license, and 25 years later we’re celebrating a big anniversary for the company.

Sarah E. Brown 02:51

Wow. Very interesting. So what should female executives be concerned about when they’re thinking about hiring or partnering with anyone?

Cynthia Hetherington 03:02

Female executives particularly are going to be, I hate to stereotype us, but we are going to be a little bit more empathetic to the personalities and the individuals that are coming into our office. We want to be very careful about the individual talents and skill sets. We should have a clear demarcation of what we want to bring into our team, what kind of skill sets we’re looking for, and not make… and I’m only, I’m speaking actually, frankly, from my position, making excuses or trying to be so understanding to an individual’s household or lifestyle concerns. If you’re going to want someone who’s going to run at your pace, you’re going to have to find someone who’s going to be able to keep up.

Sarah E. Brown 03:47

Okay. So what do you find are the biggest mistakes that she makes before learning about what she needs to know from you? What are the biggest mistakes that female executives make when they’re looking at partnership arrangements, or even hiring a nanny? Well, let’s hold the nanny thing for a minute and talk about business and then we’ll go talk about household help.

Cynthia Hetherington 04:09

We tend to look at personalities, and again, it can only speak from my experience, but I had an example last week where I had a gal come in, two gals come in for a position. One did not have a great personality, the other one did. The one with the lackluster personality had great skills. They both were equally well-skilled. In fact, the one without the personality probably had the better skillset. When I asked the team, I listened to them and everyone thought the nicer of the two ladies was going to be a better hire. So I went and hired her, and there was a nagging thought in the back of my head, which is another mistake we make. We need to listen to what our inner voices are telling us. That said, just because she has a better personality doesn’t mean she’s a better fit. And wouldn’t you know it? As soon as we started doing our background check, she failed it. When I went back to the lady who didn’t have as fun and easygoing of a personality, she was moving on to another position. So I probably lost a good staff member because we went with our feelings and not with the qualifications that we really needed.

Sarah E. Brown 05:16

Not with hard data, so to speak.

Cynthia Hetherington 05:19

Yeah. You can trust your gut, but don’t follow your heart.

Sarah E. Brown 05:23

Oh, that’s a good moniker. Trust your gut, but don’t follow your heart. How does that apply when you’re hiring household help, cleaning service or a nanny or something like that?

Cynthia Hetherington 05:35

Even more so when you’re bringing household help in, you are bringing someone into your home, the most protected and valuable asset that you have. Your family, your children, your, where your kids eat and sleep. Everything about that is, should be the most protected thing that you consider in your life. And especially trusting your gut. If you have a sense that the individual you’re talking to might present really well, but there’s just something that just doesn’t feel right, go with that. Don’t follow your heart and say, well, she’s going through hard times and she lost her job, so maybe I’ll give her a chance. No, there’s a reason why that person is not working for somebody else. And it’s either by choice or by condition. And I do respect and appreciate that people are going to be moving and transitioning around all over, but check in with their last employer. Check their credentials. Make sure that everything that you are concerned about, mostly like criminal backgrounds or past behavior are a hundred percent. And do spot checks. I had an employee I hired, I thought it was amazing on her very first day of employment. She came in inebriated, and I was really shocked. I thought, this is crazy. And my heart at the time said, this poor woman, she must be going through something really traumatic to make such a stupid mistake as coming in drunk on your first day of work. And I wanted to put her on a couch and counsel her. But that wasn’t a very good match for the position that we had. I mean, we couldn’t put her in charge of anything. Gee, I couldn’t even let her drive home that day. So I was arguing internally. I was arguing like my heart wanted to help this woman because gosh, you have to be going under something. But common sense said, this is just not a good match.

Sarah E. Brown 07:24

So is there a standard process that we should be going through when we’re looking to hire anybody?

Cynthia Hetherington 07:31

Anybody, whether you’re hiring domestically or you’re hiring for your company, should go through a classic background screening check. You want to make sure that these individuals are handling your family, your money, your reputation, your property or your life are clearly vetted by a licensed professional. And that is not cost prohibitive. It’s a few dollars, but it’ll get you a good, clear mind. Please do not do your own background check because you do not have the authority to get as deep and as specific as past criminal offenses and fraud. Any number of things could be sitting there. It doesn’t mean that they’re bad people. They may have been under bad circumstances, but you want to be as informed as possible.

Sarah E. Brown 08:19

And so, how do you find a firm that is licensed to do background checks? Do you just google it?

Cynthia Hetherington 08:26

Actually, you can. You could go into Google, you can look for your state. I would recommend that you look for your state association. So licensed private investigators, Arkansas, California, Texas. Every state has its own state association. And then go through the member directory there. Feel free to email the president of the association and ask questions. That person will also be a licensed private investigator. Probably try to sell to you directly, but they’re still going to be qualified versus when in doubt, checkthemout.com and running your own investigation. That’s going to be very bad, poor information, that’s not going to be very helpful.

Sarah E. Brown 09:04

So what kind of free resources are available to help in this process?

Cynthia Hetherington 09:10

Well, speaking of Google, we can actually Google and look up individuals. Whatever is out there is open. That’s what we call open source. And we certainly can understand a little bit more about the person’s background and how they present themselves. Please keep in mind that as you’re hiring people, there are EEOC laws. And hiring someone in your home is very different from hiring them as an employer for your work. Even if you have to consult with your attorney, they might be able to help you with this process a little by putting you with a proper HR and process of some sort. But the laws aside, and I say that with a lot of stress because we always want to stay above the wave line there, but Google could be a rich resource to learn a lot about an individual because what people do in their lives, they post openly on the internet now.

Sarah E. Brown 10:04

So, if somebody has been questionable like 10 years ago, they got drunk and posted something really inappropriate on Facebook, how much credence should we put in that?

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Cynthia Hetherington 11:20

That’s actually a great question. So there you are scrolling and social media now is getting very old, and we’re going to find the drunk messages, the silly messages. Gosh, I feel sorry for all the young folks coming outta college because you know what? They’re college kids. And when you’re college kids and you still have a protected lifestyle, but you’re having a fun lifestyle, this is when the empathy could come in, have a sense of perspective, and put things in context. If they’re caught up in a picture of themselves at a party, looking like they’re enjoying themselves, they’re holding a cocktail. I mean, big deal. If they’re doing something that looks really questionable or concerning for you because it doesn’t match, I always say, understand what your why is. Why am I hiring this person? What are my goals for this person? What do I need to accomplish with this person? If they don’t meet your merit or standard, then it’s not going to work. Because you’re always going to look at that person, even if you hire them, and you’re going to question the individual across from you. Like, would you do this crazy thing? You know now though, you did it 10 years ago. And you know what? I always tell people too, have an opportunity to address the issue that’s concerning you. If you’re talking with someone who had some bad behavior 10 years ago, hey, I noticed this thing in your social media. We are doing background checks. And first and foremost, by the way, you shouldn’t let these employees know that they will be subject to a background investigation.

Sarah E. Brown 12:50

Do not let them know?

Cynthia Hetherington 12:51

No, do let them know. Please let them know. And in some states, the laws require it. So every state has its own requirement for employing people. And we want to be very cognizant of that. So, and that’s changing. Unfortunately, it’s changing daily. It makes it very difficult. That’s why we hire a licensed private investigator, because they should be aware of what their state laws are to keep you out of the wrong. California now, as of July 1st, is going to go through the right to dismiss. I mean, there could be criminal records in there that you’re not going to see or know about, and you could be bringing these people into your home. So now there’s what and there’s what you use. So, it could be a really dangerous situation because what I feel though, we’re not doing this because we are a licensed agencies, that people are going to be aware of content that’s out there and they’re going to be making decisions about the people they want to hire, but they’re not going to be admitting to it.

Sarah E. Brown 13:49

Okay. And risks, rewards, say more about that.

Cynthia Hetherington 13:54

Well, here’s the thing. This is the practical side of me talking to someone. This is 25 years of being in this industry. If I know that we’re going to help you hire a nanny, we’re going to bring someone in to watch your children. And this person that we’re looking at has a criminal history that could be incredibly questionable, especially around children. Maybe they had DUIs and you’re going to ask them to be driving your kids back and forth somewhere. Maybe they had predator issues. I’m going to let you know. I’m going to be asking for forgiveness after the fact. I am not going to put your children in danger. At the core of what my company, what I do is, we’re here to make the world a safer place. We’re not going to compromise that because of whatever the statements of legislators who are not having the same issues or concerns that these business women are having. I mean, we need to make business women successful. We need to empower them to do better at their jobs. We need to get them in a position where they could be a leader amongst their peers. And I can’t have them worrying about what their kids are up to when they’re trying to do that. And it’s exactly the same doctrine we do with the military. If we’re working in supporting the military. I can’t have an admiral or general worried about his family at home when she’s commanding troops overseas. So let’s try to help each other out and empower each other to be the best executives we can by using intelligence. And not straight up jurisprudence to guide us in every turn.

Sarah E. Brown 15:24

Well, I see these advertisements on the news about the scenario that I see is, I’m going to make this up, George, we’d really like to help you, but maybe you can help us understand. We did a Google search on you and all of this stuff came up and the guy is saying, well, it’s really not true. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think that in a lot of cases, this is Sarah’s bias. Sometimes it’s 50 percent true, 50% is not true. But what can you do about those kinds of free resources like Google searches that produce things that are not quite true?

Cynthia Hetherington 16:05

Well, and today, especially misinformation and disinformation is profoundly increasing with artificial intelligence, generating content at the snap of your fingers. And it’s starting off with students who end up in the workforce soon enough with information that will never be able to be removed because of the preponderance of data replicating itself over and over again. It’s like roaches in a hotel. Once you chase them out of one room, they show up in another. So my company actually does the information removal process. We also do the due diligence and the background investigations. That’s why I’m speaking from two sides of my mouth, where you want to be openhearted and introspective when you’re talking to someone, but you also want to dig as deep as you can to find that information, have that conversation. So these advertisements, they have great marketing, they’re great brands, they have great marketing. It doesn’t mean that they do a great job.

I would always refer you back to a licensed private investigator who specializes in this and has the license and authority to do this type of work because a lot of the phone calls even that’ll come into my office will be, hey, this tweet came out and people don’t like me. Can you get it taken down? Or, and this phone call has actually happened quite a few times. I need to get access to my file, and I’m making air quotes here. I’m trying to find a job and I can’t find a job. And I think there’s something in my file, like people believe that there’s actually some sort of big record out there with all of your information in it. And there’s something that says like, you smoked pot in high school or something. That’s usually a big conversation we have with the customer, because there’s not usually a file.

You may have done something and I just ask. I’m like, what have you done that you would be embarrassed that your mother would know? What have you done in the past? And that’s, they start talking about the traffic violations, or I smart mouthed a cop one day, or I smoked pot in high school and I got caught. I was like, yeah, that’s not enough for anyone not to hire you. Maybe what you need is a business coach to help you get better interview skills than you need a private detective to go digging through your life to find out some imaginary thing and some imaginary paperwork that you’re convinced exists out there because of murder podcasts or something.

Sarah E. Brown 18:30

Let me ask this question. You spoke a lot about state laws. So are there ins and outs of hiring somebody that’s in another state? How do you navigate that?

Cynthia Hetherington 18:41

Well, especially with work from home, you can really, you don’t have to have them all coming into your building anymore. You can hire for the talent and not necessarily for the location. Like my company has people spread throughout the whole country. And if somebody wants my business is in New Jersey, but somebody who lives in New Hampshire and is incredibly talented but is never going to move. I have to work out what that looks like. So the hiring laws are going to start with me here in New Jersey, because I am the hiring agency and the license is coming out of New Jersey. And by license, I mean my private detective license. So I’m beholden to New Jersey state laws, but I will have to consult with New Hampshire to find out what are your requirements and laws. It starts off with my first and foremost concern is what am I legally responsible as a private detective to do with New Hampshire? And they might say that I also have to be licensed in their state. I have to carry a PI license there, which more than likely is going to happen because everybody wants their dime. Then the employment laws, and I have an HR team that I work with that handles the logistics. I don’t like to get into it. It’s a real subject matter expert that’s going to come in and our HR company has a lawyer on staff that tells me, and apparently we’re filed everywhere, and there’s taxation and things that business owners have to deal with, but I never want to talk about.

Sarah E. Brown 20:10

Yeah, I get that. When you’re looking at the laws that are involved, is that the laws associated with wherever that company is domiciled? Or is it where the candidate is?

Cynthia Hetherington 20:26

For background screening?

Sarah E. Brown 20:28

Yeah.

Cynthia Hetherington 20:28

It’s the laws of where I am. So I am going to be, oh, let me stress this. Everything that I’m doing is online. If I were to do in-person interviews, if any investigation, whether we’re hiring or just going to go into a discreet investigation on staff members in another state, I might have to hire another state investigator, depending on the reciprocity laws of that state. It’s like an accountant, an accountant can operate from their office, but if they step out or a lawyer, they step into some other state, they’re probably going to have to check what that state requirements are for them to act as a business partner in that state.

Sarah E. Brown 21:07

Okay. It’s wherever the company is domiciled that is operative.

Cynthia Hetherington 21:12

It starts with that. Yes.

Sarah E. Brown 21:14

Okay. Got it. Okay. Well, Cynthia, is there anything that I should have asked that I didn’t ask that would help female executives understand the essence of this process, or what they need to keep in mind when they’re hiring for either their company or their household?

Cynthia Hetherington 21:34

One of the easy tricks I always like to share probably could have gone under the, like, what’s for free out there and how could we do this ourselves is, most business professionals, whether they’re serving domestically or within a corporate mindset, are going to keep LinkedIn profiles. It’s a social media profile that’s open and accessible to everyone. I like to go through and review their LinkedIn profile, see the span of time they spent at each company. There are contract jobs where you kind of come in and spend a few months or maybe a few years, but if I see a lot of turnover, it’s a flag. I’m looking to see if it’s consistently kept up with what education they might have. Does it match the resume? If there’s big inconsistencies with what they have on LinkedIn versus what they have on the resume.

Those are the types of things, and it also gives me some good starting discussion points when I’m in an interview with them. Because everybody knows it’s what they put out there. They’re self advertising, so it’s a safe thing to start chit chatting. Like, oh, I see you worked at Nabisco or interned with the State Department. And it allows them to start opening up and discussing and sharing with us about their lives, their stories, and the things that they want to go across. At that point, I might also ask, hey, if you had anyone you wanted to refer me to at Nabisco that I could do a fact check on, who would you recommend? And then see what that question elicits as far as a response from them. Because they might have had a terrible time and they’re like, oh gee, I wouldn’t know who to give you. Oh, okay. That should have an immediate response, I have five people I could give you tomorrow, because we got along spectacularly and I broke my heart when I had to leave.

Sarah E. Brown 23:11

Well, it’s all the more reason for us as individuals to keep our LinkedIn profiles current as well.

Cynthia Hetherington 23:19

Yes.

Sarah E. Brown 23:20

Cynthia, thank you so much for talking with me today.

Cynthia Hetherington 23:25

Thank you. This was a real pleasure and I’m accessible for anyone who might have any questions about what we discussed

Sarah E. Brown 

And that will be in the show notes. Thanks so much.

Cynthia Hetherington 23:35

Thank you, appreciate you very much.

Sarah E. Brown 23:38

Thanks for listening to the KTS Success Factor Podcast for Women. If you like what you are hearing, please go to iTunes to subscribe, rate us, and leave a review. And if you would like more information on how we can help women in your organization to thrive, then go to www.sarahebrown.com. You can sign up for our newsletter, read show notes, and learn more about our podcast guests, read my blog, browse through the books, or contact us for a chat. Goodbye for now.

Sarah E. Brown
Sarah E. Brown